Talk:Swastika

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Frequently asked questions

To view an answer, click the [show] link to the right of the question.

Q1: Why is the word swastika used for the Nazi symbol even though Adolf Hitler called it the Hakenkreuz?

A1: Because the English loan word for the symbol has been swastika since the 1870s–1880s when multiple English-speaking authors published analyses of the symbol written in English, establishing the English language name of the symbol as swastika. The German language word for the symbol is certainly Hakenkreuz (hooked cross), but here on English Wikipedia we call it the swastika because of longstanding practice starting about 50 years before Hitler wrote Mein Kampf.

Q2: Isn't the Nazi swastika different than the ancient and revered symbol from Asia?

A2: No. For several decades preceding the rise of Nazism, the swastika was adopted by writers of the Völkisch movement who associated German nationalism and then antisemitism with the swastika. Using this as his foundation, the swastika symbol was appropriated for Nazism by Hitler who explicitly equated the Nazi symbol with the same symbol of ancient Asia. Hitler wrote about the Nazi symbol: "You will find this cross as a swastika as far as India and Japan, carved in the temple pillars. It is the swastika, which was once a sign of established communities of Aryan Culture."[1]

Q3: But doesn't the 45-degree rotation make it different?

A3: It's true the Nazi flag used a swastika with a 45-degree rotation, but Hitler's personal standard flag –

– did not, and other unrotated swastikas appear elsewhere in Nazi usage. The Nazi swastika symbolized the same ideas regardless of rotation.

Swastika is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed.

This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on May 1, 2005.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
December 3, 2003	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
April 2, 2005	Featured article candidate	Promoted
September 13, 2007	Featured article review	Demoted
June 13, 2010	Featured article candidate	Not promoted
June 16, 2010	Good article nominee	Not listed
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on September 15, 2007.
Current status: Former featured article

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The common English language name for the symbol used by the Nazis is "swastika"

Although in German the symbol is called Hakenkreuz ("hooked cross"), per the Wikipedia policy WP:COMMONNAME, we use the word that is the common name in English, which is "swastika". This is not a comment of the use of the symbol by Hindus, Native American and other cultures, it is merely the name by which English-speaking people know it.

Please do not request that "swastika" be changed to "Hakenkreuz": any such request will be denied.

This article was nominated for merging with Sauwastika on 16 November 2020. The result of the discussion (permanent link) was to merge.

Section sizes

Section size for Swastika (44 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	10,112	10,112
Etymology and nomenclature	11,058	11,058
Appearance	2,237	4,239
Written characters	2,002	2,002
Origin	767	8,127
North pole	4,526	4,526
Comet	1,915	1,915
Four winds	919	919
Historical uses	21	111,436
Prehistory	9,488	24,354
Caucasus	3,795	3,795
Europe	11,071	11,071
Southern and eastern Asia	260	18,150
Hinduism	2,844	2,844
Buddhism	1,792	1,792
Jainism	1,743	1,743
Prevalence in southern Asia	2,153	2,153
Spread to eastern Asia	9,358	9,358
Classical Europe	5,666	5,666
Medieval and early modern Europe	40	40,106
Middle Ages	6,959	6,959
Rediscovery by Heinrich Schliemann	9,967	9,967
German occultism and pan-German nationalism	9,361	9,361
Post-Schliemann popularity	10,806	10,806
New religious movements	2,973	2,973
Nazism	7,665	7,665
Americas	8,962	8,962
Africa	1,165	1,165
Modern adoptions	5,347	5,347
Modern controversy	24	27,736
Post- World War II stigmatisation	1,147	16,508
Germany	4,886	4,886
Legislation in other European countries	5,315	5,315
Outside Europe	3,615	3,615
Media	1,545	1,545
Use by neo-Nazis	4,917	4,917
Western misinterpretation of Asian use	2,486	6,287
Swastika as distinct from Hakenkreuz debate	3,801	3,801
See also	670	670
Notes	27	27
References	9,162	9,398
Sources	236	236
Further reading	352	352
External links	987	987
Total	184,142	184,142

Direction of movement, Vinča & modern use

"The investigators put forth the hypothesis that the swastika moved westward from the Indian subcontinent to Finland, Scandinavia, the Scottish Highlands and other parts of Europe."

This is backwards to the apparent dates of the inscriptions found e.g. it appears in Ukraine ~10,000bce, then Hungary/Romania/Bulgaria/Serbia ~3,000 to 6,000bce, then Iran ~5,000bce, then the Indian subcontinent ~3,000bce, indicating it was moving Eastward. The introduction of the article also suggests appropriation of the symbol from the East, despite the archaeological evidence suggesting the opposite.

The article should probably discuss the Vinča archeological finds more in the prehistory section. It's worth noting that archaeological surveys unearthed Vinča symbols around the end of the 1800s and start of the last century. It was in use as a flag emblem by the National Christian Union party, led by Alexandru Cuza, in Romania, in 1922. 14 years prior, Vinča archaeological finds had been made in Serbia. Evidence suggesting that it was selected as an emblem as a result of its presence in the archeological finds can be found in the article pertaining to Cuza himself; e.g. Cuza mentions the Swastika and "signs were found on our soil", an apparent reference to the Vinča archaeological finds. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.0.56.5016:40, 1 May 2024 (talk)

Adding Jain flag on Page lede

Swastika has roots in ancient India and is closely linked with Indian religions like Buddhism, Hinduism and Jainism. The official Jain flag adopted in 20th century has Jain flag displayed prominently in the center. I will be adding this in the beginning of the page. Livingstonshr (talk) 18:48, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The beginning of the page is for establishing the main points of the topic: see WP:LEAD which says we should not introduce new ideas in the lead section.

The Jainism flag is not widely described as important to the topic. If it is to appear anywhere on the swastika page, it would be somewhere down in the article body where it is described in prose.

However, this page has a history of too many images, and we have conducted a major pruning to solve the problem. As part of the solution, new images are very tightly monitored for relevance. Binksternet (talk) 18:53, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that you are simply resorting to POV PUSHING by using terms as " Jainism flag is not widely described as important to the topic". Livingstonshr (talk) 18:55, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is not acceptable to have nazi flag which was misappropriation of swastika on the lede and official flag of one of the top 10 largest religions removed from the lede. Livingstonshr (talk) 19:00, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The pushing of content into the article would be where you find POV. The Nazi flag is one of the most prominent usages of the swastika, while the Jainism flag is rarely seen. Binksternet (talk) 19:02, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Rarely seen in Europe and western countries does not mean the entire world. Jainism is one of the largest indian religions and also one of the oldest. Also, I haven't replaced it with Nazi flag. Livingstonshr (talk) 19:07, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

If you try again to push down the Nazi flag with the Jainism flag, you will be violating the policy described at the WP:NOTADVOCACY section of Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, and explained further at WP:Tendentious editing. That's because you would be advocating to "right great wrongs" by reducing the relevance of the Nazi flag even though its impact was huge; much bigger than any flag flown by Jainists. The Jainism flag is not widely seen even on Jainist temple or pilgrimage sites. It's rarely used. Binksternet (talk) 19:21, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Haha, are you threatening? Livingstonshr (talk) 20:44, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

You have pushed down Jainism flag, I had simply added Jainism flag where I found it suitable to be as per historical chronology. You could have simply switched them, but your motive was to eliminate it from the lede despite the fact that lede itself contains information on the same topic. Livingstonshr (talk) 20:53, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I am not threatening you; I am advising you to refrain from advocacy on Wikipedia. You indicated in several ways that you were interested in reducing the importance of the Nazi flag, and your actions reinforced that expressed wish. But the Nazi flag is extremely important to the topic, which is why your action to reduce it was not in line with policy. My own motive was simply to retain the Nazi flag in the second image position. It must be in the lead section because of its overwhelming importance to the topic, and it is appropriate as the second image because of the Nazi appropriation of the swastika starting in 1920, following centuries of other usage. Binksternet (talk) 21:15, 23 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Can you elaborate how I was reducing the importance on nazi flag? Don't try to to justify your actions of pov pushing in garb of "wikipedia policy". Secondly, Western europe, North America and Israel is NOT the entire world. Grow up. Livingstonshr (talk) 07:51, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The first image in the article shows the major forms used in Asia. The second is the Nazi flag, which is important in Europe, North America and the former British Empire (which contributed many men and women [including from India] to the war against fascism. The Jain flag is not significant at that intercontinental scale and does not belong in the lead. You do not have WP:CONSENSUS to put it there. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 12:41, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Given the amount of content the lede is summarizing, it's inevitable that many important uses of the swastika will need to omit an image. And I agree with Binksternet that the Nazi flag is unfortunately the most historically significant use of the symbol. Maybe not in India specifically, but certainly worldwide. Justin Kunimune (talk) 12:49, 24 January 2025 (UTC)[reply]

World War II

The section called "World War II" should be renamed, as it covers a period from 1920, the majority of which was before' WWII. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 16:40, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Good point, that whole section should probably just be titled "Nazism". The subheaders aren't really necessary. Justin Kunimune (talk) 21:57, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 14 February 2025

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I would like to attach an image of a swastika pattern on tile flooring. Hearty005 (talk) 03:17, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: feel free to upload it to Wikimedia as long as you follow WP:Image Use Policy. Then link to it here and reopen the request then Cannolis (talk) 05:50, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

As this article is already heavily overloaded with images, the test set out in policy MOS:IMAGEREL is especially relevant. So your image would have to be more appropriate to illustrate content in the article than an image already in use, which it would replace. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 11:54, 14 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]